lupagreenwolf | (no subject)

I have been adding ETAs to my main Livejournal post about this since it's been getting the most attention, but I wanted to highlight the latest one as I am on a laptop instead of my phone for once:

So--I feel a bit like my point has been missed on some parts, so I wanted to clarify. I have absolutely no problem with cis-women-only rituals. What I have a problem with is when a ritual that is purported to be for "all women" or, in the case of Z's ritual, "the beauty and grace of the feminine form in all of her infinite variety", is limited to cis women only. This exclusion of trans women from rituals stated to be for ALL women invalidates trans women's identities AS WOMEN. It is NOT enough that trans people have their own trans-centric rituals and spaces, though these have great value to many trans people. "Transgender" is not a third sex separate from "men" and "women". A transgender woman is a woman, and if your ritual is specifically stated to be for ALL women, then you need to include ALL women, cis and trans.

That's what I'm trying to convey. I could also go on about how I feel so many cis women are ignoring the fact that trans women's issues ARE women's issues. I could add in how transphobic it is for cis women who have been raped, abused, or assaulted by men (and I include myself in that demographic as a sexual assault and abusive relationship survivor) use our trauma as a weapon against trans women simply because they were born into male bodies. I could emphasize that cisgender women do have privileges that trans women do not, simply for being cis--no one doubts that we cis women are women because we were born with vulvas, but trans women have their identities as women questioned all the time, within and outside of paganism. But I feel that these issues have been more than adequately covered in the many comments and discussions as a response to this post, for which I am very grateful.

So I am just going to leave this as my main point: have cis-women-only rituals if you want. Or cis-men-only. Or trans-women, or trans-men, or genderqueer, etc. There is space for sharing unique experiences. However, don't call your cis-women-only ritual one that is for ALL WOMEN. That is where I get angry, and why I was protesting this weekend.

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I can imagine plenty of reasons for rituals limited to specific groups of cis-women... women who have given birth, or who breastfeed, or who bleed/have bled every month, or who are fertile right now, and so on. (Nevermind checking for accuracy; I'm willing to posit basic honesty for the most part.)

I'm having more trouble coming up with reasons for all-cis-women rituals, but I'm willing to posit such rituals could exist without promoting transphobia. But there's a big difference between "this ritual is for us, to build energies based on our shared our experiences" (whatever those might be) and "this ritual is for WOMEN which means NO ICKY MANPARTS in your pants or in your physical history!!!"

I can imagine rituals made specifically for say, pregnant women for health and protection (despite the rhetoric about natural birth and parenting, pregnancy always carried risks of danger, and not just for humans, I have a horrifying story about a mare who wouldn't be alive today if it weren't for veterinarians if you're interested), but it's the overall attitude that pisses me off.

Yep. No problem with "this ritual is to celebrate bodily fertility and strengthen the bodies of women carrying a child." Or, "this ritual is to welcome our new teenage sister to womanhood, so it's for menstruating women only." Or "this is for mother-child energies." Or whatever.

But, "this is to celebrate the diverse beauty of the female form" doesn't have any reason to limit attendance to cis women, and the way this one was done was an insult and an attack.

By Ghod, I think you've hit on it: it's not body morphology that's the issue, its *!*!*GUY COOTIES*!*!*.

Z's rants make it very clear that she thinks a penis or a Y chromosome comes with some inborn anti-woman traits, and that anyone who's ever had either is devoid of spiritual value.

When pressed, she'll admit that men have men's mysteries, and that there are trans mysteries, but the confusion and condescension when she talks about them makes it clear that it's like parents talking about four-year-olds declaring themselves married... obviously, they can tell it's important to the adults, and it's very cute that want to participate, but nobody thinks it's *real.*

(Am speaking from inference. Have no direct quotes to offer right now; if anyone has examples of Z actually *honoring* the existence of men's mysteries or trans mysteries, rather than "I guess they can do something religious too," I'd be happy to hear it.)

Still have issues with this concept of cis women only rituals.

There are trans men and non-binary people who conceive, stay pregnant, give birth, even feed their children with lactation secretions. There are cis men, trans women, and non-binary people who do have the equipment for lactation and some of those people do go so far as to nurse their children/aid their partners/etc. I bring this up to illustrate the inherant biological essentialism, rigid gender roles, and binarism I personally encounter in the vast majority of modern western paganism & related spiritualities.

The biggest issue with trying to limit these groups based on such criteria is how many incorrect, insensitive, ignorant, and offensive assumptions are made about others, their bodies, and their relationship with their gender and their bodies.

Having a cis-woman-only space is a privileged equivalent of men-only, straight-only, white-only, etc. While I appreciate and acknowlege that there can be and are spiritual reasons to gather/participate/etc. along some particular lines, even men-only rituals, the fact remains that our western society still privileges (trans or cis) mens voices over (trans or cis) womens voices, erases non binary genders entirely, privileges white voices over POC voices, hetero over queer, etc. To the point that every pagan womans event IS for not merely cis woman but a rather rigid definition at that.

The reply to my comment below yours illustrates how such rigid definitions can alienate other cis women who are gender-non-conforming in various ways.

Finally, though I admit lack of personal experience, I have generally encountered cis women who are infertile or who do not want children, who do identify with the creator and nurturer archetypes, to find other ways of identifying other than through birthing/raising children, ie: nurturing personalities, pets, creating art, etc. Even encouraged to do so by others within the community.

Again, I can definitely see the need, value, and validity of rituals or gatherings/etc. based on those who are pregnant, or trying to conceive, etc. The list goes on. The automatic assumption that everyone who is or has been pregnant (or who badly, badly wishes they could be) is or must be a cis woman is what I am taking issue with here, that is cissexism. Trans men and non-binary people who are pregnant, have been pregnant, or who want to be pregnant one day are constantly degendered, and assumed to be women/female from all angles because in society 'uterus' = woman = female = pregnancy = feminine, etc.

I, personally, see no need for cis-women-only rituals. I can posit that some cis women might need such a ritual, and that, hypothetically, it could be possible to have a reason for it that wasn't based on transphobia. I have doubts about this, because I've yet to see any description for "women-only-and-we-mean-no-trans-women" rituals that weren't steeped in either transphobia, or what they really meant was "this ritual is for women directly participating in aspects of physical fertility."

Sometimes there's transphobia and other alienations built into those; sometimes, they really are just focused on certain aspects of fertility and haven't figured out how to phrase things politely. (When six women have been circling together for a couple of years, and offer to host a ritual in a semi-public venue, they may not realize how their self-descriptions come across to people who have different experiences of womanhood.)

Racking my brain for "what I have in common with other cis women, that I don't have in common with trans or genderqueer women"... I'm not coming up with much to build a ritual on. I can imagine plenty in common with other people who've given birth and breastfed, or with other people who menstruate, or with those women who work in the corporate world. None of those are cis-women-only things. But people are diverse and constantly surprise me; I can imagine the *idea* of "cis women's mysteries" if not the content of those mysteries.

Maybe we could have a workshop for "cis women lecture other cis women on how transphobia and gender absolutism are bad for all women," with all the hurtful statements that would bring up confined to an audience who's not the direct targets of the bigotry.